Tuesday, May 30, 2006

Paradigm Change and Solution for Reservation Issue - Attn: Anti-reservation Students

Continuing on my take on reservations from here.

In today’s media, we see the following types of people,
1. Anti-reservation – the so called forward people
2. Pro-reservation – the so called backward people, who have benefited from reservation
3. Anti-reservation folks from backward classes, and pro-reservation folks from forward classes

Now, of the above, who wants the backward to continue remaining backward? Who is acting as the block in their development?

I say, the answer is 2.

How??

Make a reality check on the ‘2’ people, on how many of them have torn off their Caste certificates after benefiting from reservation in either educational institutions or government jobs.

How many of them have thought “yes, I have benefited from reservation once, it is enough for my family, based on this help provided by the society, I will rise. Now, let the real benefit be passed on to someone else who really deserves it.”

How many of the ‘intellectuals’, or ‘social-justice-champions’, or those ‘habitual-brahmin-bashers’, who flock the internet, newspapers, newsgroups, political stages have really said, “Let me give way for the deserving”.

Even an I.A.S. officer who has benefited through reservation, wants the benefit to be passed on to his children and grand children, irrespective of more deserving people, who need the society to uplift them.

Including some of those anonymous people who have commented on my blog, and who are trying to project anti-reservationists as selfish people, are the real selfish folks who are against development of the backward community.

The student organizers of the anti-reservation protests will have to start looking at the intellectuals supporting reservation from this perspective.

If doctors who got medical seat through reservation, come forward to argue for continuation of reservation, the first thing to be told to them is, ‘Go, tear you caste certificate and those of your children, let the real deserving to use it, and then come forward to talk about uplifting of the backwards in the society.’

The real reason for the backwardness of the so called backward people is their own folks who have moved ahead. The creamy layer is the only block that prevents the real fruit of reservation to reach the section of the society for which it is intended to.

The votes of the creamy layer are also not large in number, when compared to the rest, so why does the government not bring the creamy layer clause in the reservation? The answer is clearly political. If creamy layer clause is implemented, then all the leaders of the so called backwards, and the opinion makers of those classes would loose their unconstitutional, undue privileges, and make way for the real deserving.

And that is the only reason why, all the so called, voices of the pro-reservation in any forum, will oppose the creamy layer, and economic level based reservation tooth and nail. Their intention is NOT to uplift the real backward classes, but to take all the privileges themselves.

Solution for the reservation issue:
The only solution the anti-reservation students can put forward to the Government and accept could be as follows:

Any person who avails of the reservation quota in education or employment exhausts it and their children doesn’t get to enjoy it.

Go to the university, college, Government employment records and implement it right away. Revoke the Caste certificates given to the children of those who have benefited once from the reservation.

Make sure, people from the same community who have not got a chance, get a genuine chance.

By doing this, every year, we reduce the number of people who claim reservations, because with every batch of folks passing out of colleges, or getting jobs in govt, a chunk of people get their Caste certificates Revoked. Thus the % of population in backward category reduces. Hence the % of reservation also goes down. [for. Ex. In case of tamil nadu, 69% becomes 65% in two years, and 60% in 5 years and so on. ]

Immediate Action Points for the student community leaders:
Apart from protesting against reservation, the need of the day is
1. Educating the real backward people about the need for creamy layer clause.
2. Create awareness among the so-far-non-benefited backward people, about the importance of excluding the benefited backwards.
3. Make them understand the real intention of the pro-reservation-elite-backwards, which is highly self-centered, and how ‘bringing-social-equality’ is a lie.
4. Drive the rural-poor-deserving-OBCs to force the elite-OBCs to tear off their caste certificates, which is the only way, their lives will be bettered by reservation.
5. Force the Government to implement the creamy layer clause and exclusion of the already previleged.
6. Understand that increasing the number of seats is not a solution for the current problem.


17 Comments:

At Tue May 30, 05:54:00 AM CDT, Blogger ROBBIE said...

Seems like you are going to get rid of reservations with those powerful pointers...
Yeah I agree, we do have to educate people. I think education is the only way out of the mess India is in (not only reservations but corruption as well)

 
At Tue May 30, 06:32:00 AM CDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

wonderful............I have copy pasted the content from ur blog 7 sent thru email in all directions

 
At Tue May 30, 01:43:00 PM CDT, Blogger weedwanderer said...

Hey,
I've designed this image at http://weedwanderer.blogspot.com/ in support of protestors against reservation....please do chk it out and feel free to post it on your blog.

Thanks,
KB

 
At Tue May 30, 03:12:00 PM CDT, Blogger Ganesh said...

TJ sensible post
but will the hypocrites give up their caste ?!

 
At Thu Jun 01, 03:17:00 AM CDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

1. "Anyone who gets the reservation benefit should be barred to avail it again" argument is not good. Reservations are also availed to get a Sweeper's job or a clerks job, which by all means does not elevate the status of beneficiary to an'open competitive level'.
2. Moreover, reservation is not the only means to succeed in life. What about backward class businessmen? Can they avail reservation because they have not availed earlier.
3. So right solution is thay ANYONE (irrespective of whether she availed reservation or not), having a threshold economic status should be debarred to avail reservation.
4. And what is that threshold level? It is the creamy layer provision which is already in place for OBC job reservation. The same should be extended in case of all reservation includinf SC/ST reservation.
5. Creamy layer provision are very clear: Among other indicators, one is income, which is presently set at 2.5 lakh per annum. Anyone (IAS/ businessmen/ politician etc) above this limit are not given reservation even now.

 
At Fri Jun 02, 11:00:00 PM CDT, Blogger Priya said...

sensible talk tj

 
At Sat Jun 03, 05:21:00 AM CDT, Blogger akp said...

I agree with your point that a creamy layer clause can be added.

However, I differ in some of your opinions:

1. You cannot ask ppl to tear of their community certificates as of now. You can only ask the govt. to implement a "creamy layer" clause because, even if one tears his certificate the others or not going to do so. So, it will affect him only.

2. You cannot say that economic based reservation can be introduced. Businessmen forge their income. What do you say for this?

3. You have to take a note of the valid point of one of that anonymous commentor who has said about ppl getting jobs as sweepers or clerks using their reservation. Your statistics of tamilnadu BC reservation eligible people % going down might be correct but do you think that it means ppl have got developed? Certainly no.

4. You have not talked anything beyond reservations. Why did you not think beyond that and say that reservation has to be abolished? Don't you think that by promising reservation to say rural people [there is a rural quota in TN Engg. admissions], the government is indirectly telling that it is not going to take care about those places? Don't you think the best way for development is not reservation but improving the government educational institutions?

5. And, you had said in your previous post that in TN people do not protest because majority of the ppl enjoy reservation. Now, I was discussing the reservation issue with my classmate and I asked why only Medical students are protesting? He said, it is simple, if Engg. students go on strike no one will bother but if doctors go on strike ppl get affected. Now, if those doctors had been in Engg. students would they have joined in the agitation? certainly NO. In that way everyone is selfish.

And, believe me there are many who are not "bramin-bashers". And, there are some brahmins who deserve a bashing... I have heard of brahmins who think that their plates become unholy if some other caste person touches it...

NB: Since I have written so many points in disagreement, it does not mean that I am against the contents of your blog... it was nice.

 
At Mon Jun 05, 07:16:00 PM CDT, Blogger Priya said...

you have been tagged!!

 
At Tue Jun 06, 08:03:00 AM CDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I agree with anonymous's comments -Ther has to be an economic threshold for reservations and that is probably the best way to go about it. If we continue making reservations on the basis of caste it just further divides the country on the basis of caste. I agree that educations is the obly way to solve a majority of problems that our country faces but resrvations on the basis of cast is not the solutions. Also it is highly impractical to do what your are suggesting ie people who have used the reservation sytems tearing up their certificate - it will be a tracking nightmare and will just lead to more bureaucracy

 
At Sun Jun 11, 12:17:00 AM CDT, Anonymous realitycheck said...

Good blog.

The real issue is : the lack of data pre-empts any rational discussion of the quota system.

The discussions are always kept at an "emotional plane" - this is convenient for politicians because the discourse at this plane is much more appealing and easier.

They are scared, really scared of hard data.



If you look at the OBC quota, you will find that only 2-3 OBC communities (representing < 15% of the total OBC populaton) corner anywhere from 50% of jobs and 80% of professional courses seats. (This report is from the second backward classes commission).

That is the real issue, many OBC communities corner the benefits year after year, generation after generation.

 
At Thu Jun 15, 03:44:00 AM CDT, Blogger TJ said...

Robbie, Ganesh,priya, akp, realtycheck, weedwanderer and anons;

Thanks for your valuable comments. Though there is no all correct perspective in this issue, common ground would be to remove the reservation at a later point of time. It is definity not a right. It is a concession!!

 
At Mon Jun 19, 03:29:00 AM CDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

PROTEST AGAINST TN 69% RESERVATION

TAMIL ANTI-CASTE RESERVATION BLOG
தமிழ் ஜாதிசார் இடஒதுக்கீடு எதிர்ப்பு வலைப்பதிவு
http://i.am/thamizhan
வெல்க தமிழ்

 
At Mon Aug 07, 01:15:00 PM CDT, Blogger Sundha said...

For the benefit of all viewers: This article is regarding the existing system of Reservation in educational institutions in India. It is not meant to offend anyone.

There are several thousand voices-in the streets, in the newspapers and magazines, in the ubiquitous TV and the internet about reservations in education and jobs. the pro reservationists cite "thousands of years of oppression and supression by higher castes" as a reason to implement quotas for OBCs. The anti reservationists cite danger to "merit" as the chief reason to oppose quotas. Both arguments can easily be found to be hollow.. First it is a universal fact that in any social system inequalities is the rule rather than an exception. In modern civilised soceities, they exist in the form of economic disparities, political, organisational and numerical power etc.In the Indian context, it was the caste. However, one should note that in terms of discrimination in soceity, it was only the Dalits who were subjected to this social ignomy.All other caste groups were neatly divided to perform specific soceital functions. The Vaisyas were tradesmen, the Kshatriyas were warriors and Brahmins were educationists. They were dependent on each other and each was superior in his realm. One can note that all caste associations except brahmins claim that their ancestors were once kings and rulers. They were infact patronising the then brahmins in their courts. where then does the question of suppression and oppression arise?
It was the advent of Industrial revolution and technological advancement and in the Indian context, the British rule, which brought forth the importance of education in social advancement. For too long, the Indian soceity continued and in certain specific contexts, still continues to adopt old soceital norms.Thus the traditional learners viz. Brahmins continued their only known occupation i.e. learning, while the majority of others did not care to go for it. The British administrative system, scientific advancement, evoluton of modern technologies, all demanded academic knowledge which was readily available with Brahmins and hence their meteoric rise in all such fields.By the time this truth dawned on others, Brahmins had already taken up top positions in these fields. One must agree that they reached there by sheer hard work and the no nonsense selection criteria of the British and not by preventing others as the reservation system does now. It is surprising that this simple historic truth has never been put forward in any debate demanding and opposing reservations. Neither the contention that they are more intelligent as a race nor the one that alleges that their rise was by suppressing others is thus, factually right.
But look at the current situation. The Indian State is hell bent on officially suppressing the so caled Forward castes (read Brahmins). Political parties and state governments, especially Tamil Nadu, vie with each other in blocking all possible avenues of education and jobs to these people.A convenient word has been coined to justify this; positive discrimination! The offensive doesn't stop with official/legal acts. Systematic ostracism, heaping obscenities in the media, vulgarisation and imitation of their day to day social life by cheap, demeaning imitation and violence on a unarmed peace loving community all add to the blindly prejudicial acts.Now the question to the "rationalists" is, Is it justifiable to punish a young generation many of whom are even oblivious of the existence of caste discriminations, on the ground that their forefathers were in high social status? And especially since that status was achieved and not bestowed?
Everyone knows that in the current social context, only money power, political power and muscle power either in isolation or in combination determine the social status of a person and very often they go together. Money brings in ways and means of attaining education irrespective of merit. The mushrooming private medical colleges in TN and thier fee structure will tell a lot about this. So do the private elementary schools. Irrespective of whether a child is a Brahmin or a dalit or belongs to OBC, affluence gets them educated.It is the poor of each and every community that is sidelined by even their own community 'well to dos'.
The caste weapon has been cleverly exploited by the rich and politically powerful.On the one hand shout from roof tops about the "bane" of caste system and give tons of evidence indicting Brahmins to be the sole cause of this "soceital malady". On the other, exploit the caste system to your advantage by making use of it in elections-in bargaining for assembly seats and to gather large crowds inciting them to have loyalty to their caste only to increase the vote bank. The other use of the caste weapon is to make sure that reservations to educational institutions are not reduced to their wards and succeeding generations. The poor among the OBCs hardly benefit from it.One has to just go through the economic status of those getting admitted to professional courses to know this truth.There is a twin benefit with his system. A large number of OBCs will continue to be deprived of higher education as these will be cornered by the rich.Thus justification of continued reservation will exist forever. Second, the argument by the antireservationists that merit suffers by reservation can be countered as those selected in the OBC category will also me meritoriuous thanks to their access to superior coaching in good schools and training centres. Merit , in fact, does not suffer. Brilliant students exist in all categories of the population. It is their access to quality education at school level that makes them fit for higher studies despite quotas because seats are scarce.This access is solely determined by economic status. One can see why the "rationalists" become furious on hearing the very words 'economic criteria' or 'creamy layer'.
The rich among the "forwards" have shifted to greener pastures like silicon valley but the poor continue to live in penury and also bear the brunt of rationalists' attack. But then it all concerns with Money Honey!!

 
At Mon Aug 07, 01:17:00 PM CDT, Blogger Sundha said...

For the benefit of all viewers: This article is regarding the existing system of Reservation in educational institutions in India. It is not meant to offend anyone.

There are several thousand voices-in the streets, in the newspapers and magazines, in the ubiquitous TV and the internet about reservations in education and jobs. the pro reservationists cite "thousands of years of oppression and supression by higher castes" as a reason to implement quotas for OBCs. The anti reservationists cite danger to "merit" as the chief reason to oppose quotas. Both arguments can easily be found to be hollow.
First, it is a universal fact that in any social system, inequalities is the rule rather than an exception. In modern civilised soceities, they exist in the form of economic disparities, political, organisational and numerical power etc. In the Indian context, it was the caste. However, one should note that in terms of discrimination in soceity, it was only the Dalits who were subjected to this social ignomy. All other caste groups were neatly divided to perform specific soceital functions. The Vaisyas were tradesmen, the Kshatriyas were warriors and Brahmins were educationists. They were dependent on each other and each was superior in his realm. One can note that all caste associations except brahmins claim that their ancestors were once kings and rulers. They were infact patronising the then brahmins in their courts. Where then does the question of suppression and oppression arise?
It was the advent of Industrial revolution and technological advancement and in the Indian context, the British rule, which brought forth the importance of education in social advancement. For too long, the Indian soceity continued and in certain specific contexts, still continues to adopt old soceital norms.Thus the traditional learners viz. Brahmins continued their only known occupation i.e. learning, while the majority of others did not care to go for it. The British administrative system, scientific advancement, evolution of modern technologies, all demanded academic knowledge which was readily available with Brahmins and hence their meteoric rise in all such fields. By the time this truth dawned on others, Brahmins had already taken up top positions in these fields. One must agree that they reached there by sheer hard work and the no nonsense selection criteria of the British and not by preventing others as the reservation system does now. It is surprising that this simple historic truth has never been put forward in any debate demanding and opposing reservations. Neither the contention that they are more intelligent as a race nor the one that alleges that their rise was by suppressing others is thus, factually right.
But look at the current situation. The Indian State is hell bent on officially suppressing the so caled Forward castes (read Brahmins). Political parties and state governments, especially Tamil Nadu, vie with each other in blocking all possible avenues of education and jobs to these people.A convenient word has been coined to justify this; positive discrimination! The offensive doesn't stop with official/legal acts. Systematic ostracism, heaping obscenities in the media, vulgarisation and imitation of their day to day social life by cheap, demeaning imitation and violence on a unarmed peace loving community all add to the blindly prejudicial acts.
Now the question to the "rationalists" is, Is it justifiable to punish a young generation many of whom are even oblivious of the existence of caste discriminations, on the ground that their forefathers were in high social status? And especially since that status was achieved and not bestowed?
Everyone knows that in the current social context, only money power, political power and muscle power either in isolation or in combination determine the social status of a person and very often they go together. Money brings in ways and means of attaining education irrespective of merit. The mushrooming private medical colleges in TN and thier fee structure will tell a lot about this. So do the private elementary schools. Irrespective of whether a child is a Brahmin or a dalit or belongs to OBC, affluence gets them educated. It is the poor of each and every community that is sidelined by even their own community 'well to dos'.
The caste weapon has been cleverly exploited by the rich and politically powerful. On the one hand shout from roof tops about the "bane" of caste system and give tons of evidence indicting Brahmins to be the sole cause of this "soceital malady". On the other, exploit the caste system to your advantage by making use of it in elections-in bargaining for assembly seats and to gather large crowds inciting them to have loyalty to their caste only to increase the vote bank. The other use of the caste weapon is to make sure that reservations to educational institutions are not reduced to their wards and succeeding generations. The poor among the OBCs hardly benefit from it. One has to just go through the economic status of those getting admitted to professional courses to know this truth.There is a twin benefit with his system. A large number of OBCs will continue to be deprived of higher education as these will be cornered by the rich.Thus justification of continued reservation will exist forever. Second, the argument by the antireservationists that merit suffers by reservation can be countered as those selected in the OBC category will also be meritorious thanks to their access to superior coaching in good schools and training centres. Merit , in fact, does not suffer. Brilliant students exist in all categories of the population. It is their access to quality education at school level that makes them fit for higher studies despite quotas because seats are scarce.This access is solely determined by economic status. One can see why the "rationalists" become furious on hearing the very words 'economic criteria' or 'creamy layer'.
The rich among the "forwards" have shifted to greener pastures like silicon valley but the poor continue to live in penury and also bear the brunt of rationalists' attack. But then it all concerns with Money Honey!!

 
At Fri Sep 22, 02:13:00 AM CDT, Blogger Arivan Govindan said...

Hey TJ

I appreciate your socialistic thoughts. I never thought you would have such advanced thoughts quite against your earlier views in favor of the Vedas and a clear caste based devide.

Anyway assume a student utilized reservations in 1990, he would have been 18. He would have studied for 4 years, worked for 2 years and then got married in 1996 and had a kid in 1997. The kid now would be 9 years old and it would be 9 years from now that the first batch of the second generation users of reservation arrive. So lets discuss it then...

Arivan

 
At Sat Oct 28, 12:09:00 PM CDT, Anonymous Anonymous said...

http://www.shivamvij.com/2006/10/i-am-a-dalit-how-are-you.html A nice video of real status of Dalits and distinguishing how dalit problem is different for OBC problems

 
At Mon Jan 08, 05:22:00 AM CST, Anonymous Anonymous said...

HINDI SPEAKING OBCs WELCOME
HINDI SPEAKING STAFF AT TN AIRPORTS OK
HINDI SPEAKING BODYGUARDS FOR KARNUNANIDHI OK
HINDI PAINTS ON TN TRAINS OK
HINDI ONLY ANNOUCEMENTS ON TN FLIGHTS OK

.... BUT TAMIL BRAHMINS TO BE ELIMINATED OUT OF TN...

DMK's ANTI-HINDI IS ONLY A DRAMA BUT ANTI-(TAMIL) BRAHMIN IS MORE THAN REAL


Sir

I wish to bring to your attention that many backward castes, most backward caste listed in Tamil Nadu's reserved caste category speak language other than Tamil. The list is seen Tamil Nadu website http://www.tn.gov.in/bcmbcmw/bclist.htm

These includes countless communities where Telugu is spoken at home, also several Kannada speaking caste and Urdu Muslim communities who essentially speak Hindi.

The chairman of Tamil Nadu's minority commision is Pyarelal Jain appointed by Karunanidhi, a Hindi-speaking Jain.

Tamil Brahmins despite being the "biggest scoundrels" according to Karunanidhi are still Tamils. How is that Karunanidhi is reaching out even to North Indians for votes by printing Hindi pamphlets in last election. Why is DMK hating Tamil Brahmins but at the sametime reaching out for North Indians residing in TN.

Many CBSE schools in Tamil Nadu continue to impose Hindi (as compulsory subject), while Tamil can be conveniently skipped. This is sharp contrast to Karnataka where all schools including CBSE school which dont teach Kannada as compulsory subject will be de-recognized. Karunanidhi has come to power the 4th time now. Still the Hindi impositition in CBSE flourishes.

Why are Tamil Nadu's ports of entry i.e airports and ports staffed by people who speak Hindi and dont know Tamil?

Why has Karunidhi failed on his promise to have mandatory Tamil annoucements on all Tamil Nadu flights.

Recently there was court case against use of Tamil as official language in TN and also opposition. Many people who oppose this are also covered under Tamil Nadu reservation.

Why are evils such as 2-tumbler system and seperate well system so prevelent in Southern TN where there is virtually no 'scoundrel' Brahmins left. It seems that amoung BC caste there is lot of descrimination and Dalits are still suffering while the bloody TN govt, Karunidhi etc are wantonly ignoring and supporting this.

It all looks like that the reservation policy is the most convenient means by "Tamil" politicians to destroy Tamil, Tamil society for their personal gains.

Tamil patriots would have done something great if they had reservation for one Tamil caste in TN rather than commercial certificates which many non-Tamil speaker can purchase.

Nandri Vanakkam
தமிழ் சமத்துவம்
http://i.am/tamil

 

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